tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774681833222176907.post869165411998935582..comments2024-02-18T06:21:45.375-06:00Comments on ~<i>The Three Prayers</i>: The Hobbit: An Unexpected JourneyJanet Cupohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01037555111680888247noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774681833222176907.post-85007681278897349872013-01-05T17:30:03.291-06:002013-01-05T17:30:03.291-06:00Well, that's nice to know.
AMDGWell, that's nice to know.<br /><br />AMDGJanethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09069018443486415173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774681833222176907.post-15873919071843096852013-01-05T17:20:08.526-06:002013-01-05T17:20:08.526-06:00I did read the Silmarillion, but it was thirty yea...I did read the Silmarillion, but it was thirty years ago and I don't remember much at all. Fortunately, there is an index, and y'all are exactly right:<br /><br />"[Saruman] gathered a great host of spies, and many of these were birds; for Radagast lent him his aid, divining naught of his treachery, and deeming that this was but part of the watch upon the Enemy."Maclinhttp://lightondarkwater.typepad.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774681833222176907.post-79878969040206547512013-01-04T11:00:30.383-06:002013-01-04T11:00:30.383-06:00Yes, what Paul says is what I thought. He's in...Yes, what Paul says is what I thought. He's innocent and trusting enough to be Saruman's pawn, but nothing more, and Gandalf himself doesn't impute any actual malice to him. I haven't read enough of the Silmarillion to know whether he shows up there at all. Sally Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05014351173194941624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774681833222176907.post-88892757307265792962013-01-03T08:03:35.781-06:002013-01-03T08:03:35.781-06:00Correction, Paul already knew it.
AMDGCorrection, Paul already knew it.<br /><br />AMDGJanet Cupohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01037555111680888247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774681833222176907.post-2553988046493989232013-01-02T16:16:17.812-06:002013-01-02T16:16:17.812-06:00Paul looked it up. It's right above this.
AMD...Paul looked it up. It's right above this.<br /><br />AMDGJanethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09069018443486415173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774681833222176907.post-66951684001067312592013-01-02T16:15:20.505-06:002013-01-02T16:15:20.505-06:00Oh good. Thanks for looking.
AMDGOh good. Thanks for looking.<br /><br />AMDGJanethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09069018443486415173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774681833222176907.post-73124478138732010132013-01-02T15:29:55.364-06:002013-01-02T15:29:55.364-06:00In LOTR, Radagast is duped by Saruman into sending...In LOTR, Radagast is duped by Saruman into sending Gandalf into a trap, but not being a conscious accomplice in Saruman's evil plan he also sends the eagle that rescues Gandalf from Saruman's clutches. Then he just disappears from the story, as far as I remember. If he does go bad, I think it must be something in the Silmarillion, rather than LOTR (but that I haven't read, or ever found readable, despite three or four attempts. Still, a year ago I could have said the same about St Therese of Lisieux's autobiography).Paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774681833222176907.post-55283103284286230792013-01-02T12:13:47.393-06:002013-01-02T12:13:47.393-06:00I'm not sure, and it would take too long to di...I'm not sure, and it would take too long to dig through the book and find out, but my vague memory is that he did go bad. I don't think he was in the Rings movies at all.<br /><br />Actually I suppose one could find the answer more or less instantly with Google.Maclinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14431327970201767428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774681833222176907.post-59438170884728761942013-01-02T07:22:39.769-06:002013-01-02T07:22:39.769-06:00Somebody who ought to know told me last week that ...Somebody who ought to know told me last week that he joined with Saruman. I didn't remember that and haven't had time to look it up, but I know you have read it more recently than I have.<br /><br />I just sent you an email.<br /><br />AMDGJanethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09069018443486415173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774681833222176907.post-30066234765668211452013-01-02T06:55:02.069-06:002013-01-02T06:55:02.069-06:00In the book(s), I mean. I haven't seen the mov...In the book(s), I mean. I haven't seen the movie(s) -- any of them -- and I'm not sure I'm going to. Sally Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05014351173194941624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774681833222176907.post-17462402072688354282013-01-02T06:54:03.263-06:002013-01-02T06:54:03.263-06:00Radagast goes bad? I thought he was the simple St....Radagast goes bad? I thought he was the simple St. Francis-y bird man (he's even Franciscanly brown!), and essentially static as a character, in his few appearances. Sally Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05014351173194941624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774681833222176907.post-30829726405468770392013-01-01T10:15:55.763-06:002013-01-01T10:15:55.763-06:00No, I don't think I could keep it.
AMDGNo, I don't think I could keep it.<br /><br />AMDGJanet Cupohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01037555111680888247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774681833222176907.post-10713693182045234782013-01-01T10:07:35.239-06:002013-01-01T10:07:35.239-06:00Ha. No, I was just busy and exhausted and couldn&#...Ha. No, I was just busy and exhausted and couldn't bear to think at the moment.<br /><br />AMDGJanet Cupohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01037555111680888247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774681833222176907.post-21776321721630417432013-01-01T09:42:16.919-06:002013-01-01T09:42:16.919-06:00Perhaps Janet thinks posting about films brings ou...Perhaps Janet thinks posting about films brings out the worst in some of her commenters?Paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774681833222176907.post-77737672065725959112013-01-01T07:29:48.739-06:002013-01-01T07:29:48.739-06:00don't make that resolutiondon't make that resolutionAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774681833222176907.post-66882494237381656402013-01-01T01:31:57.257-06:002013-01-01T01:31:57.257-06:00Why make such a resolution?Why make such a resolution?Maclinhttp://lightondarkwater.typepad.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774681833222176907.post-56442670124873592652012-12-31T17:47:20.951-06:002012-12-31T17:47:20.951-06:00Perhaps resolve not to write about any films you w...Perhaps resolve not to write about any films you watch in the coming year?Paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774681833222176907.post-48131062577612315642012-12-31T16:32:29.087-06:002012-12-31T16:32:29.087-06:00I'm about to make a New Year's Resolution ...I'm about to make a New Year's Resolution not to write about films anymore. The problem is that I have one I want to write something about and I don't have time to do it before tomorrow.<br /><br />AMDGJanet Cupohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01037555111680888247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774681833222176907.post-6422151161577587572012-12-31T15:49:39.691-06:002012-12-31T15:49:39.691-06:00"already a swordsman killing demon-wolves.&qu..."already a swordsman killing demon-wolves."<br /><br />[rolling of eyes]<br /><br />Actually this is beginning to sound so divorced from reality (i.e. the book) that I can imagine sort of enjoying it in an action-movie special-effects way.Maclinhttp://lightondarkwater.typepad.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774681833222176907.post-24276330418823040242012-12-31T15:00:36.961-06:002012-12-31T15:00:36.961-06:00Correction: glancing at the book I find that in th...Correction: glancing at the book I find that in the final battle Bilbo is knocked on the head at the climax, and only misses the denouement. But when Thorin comes charging out of the mountain at the very end it is the first time he has sought battle – in that sense it is a sudden, final reversal that puts him in a completely new light as a hero, not one more instance in a long list of combats. I suppose this makes me a fully paid up member of the pickier or the pickiest?<br /><br />Of course, it is possible that having built up Bilbo to being "accepted" by Thorin as a hero in the "heroic" mould, Jackson will take an opportunity in the next instalments to turn it around and have Thorin recognize his worth in the "unheroic" mould (as he does in the book in his dying speech). But I'd be very pleasantly surprised if he did.Paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774681833222176907.post-28665099620199419712012-12-31T14:37:17.997-06:002012-12-31T14:37:17.997-06:00It's not a bad film, although there is a bit t...It's not a bad film, although there is a bit too much in the way shouts and bangs and clashes and cliff-hanging, but it's not <i>The Hobbit</i>. I think it might be the best "swords and sorcery" film I've ever seen (including LOTR, but perhaps not counting Chinese efforts), but it turns the heart of the book it's based on inside out.<br /><br />The central fact of <i>The Hobbit</i> is that Bilbo remains resolutely unheroic throughout (in the "heroic age" sense), despite showing courage and resourcefulness on numerous occasions. Even in the final battle, he gets knocked on the head early on and misses the whole thing. The film is now a third of the way through the story, and he's already a swordsman killing demon-wolves. Peter Jackson may think that makes him more acceptable as a cinematic hero, but it really stops him being Bilbo Baggins, and completely misses the most salient theme of the story.<br /><br />In the book, the dwarves themselves purposely avoid battle as much as they can, until they have a home and a treasure to defend; in the film they're spoiling for a fight at every turn, not only with goblins but even with elves. Most of the story is a series of escapes and evasions, rather than battles, with hospitality and inhospitality more obvious themes than swordsmanship. Jackson keeps hospitality (but loses the dwarves' elaborate courtesy), and keeps the escapes (elaborating them painfully), but doesn't trust Tolkien when it comes to the main theme: his heroes have to be reckless and violent to be heroic at all.Paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774681833222176907.post-61137398756849135992012-12-30T21:14:21.436-06:002012-12-30T21:14:21.436-06:00Yes, that's pretty much how I reacted.
AMDGYes, that's pretty much how I reacted.<br /><br />AMDGJanet Cupohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01037555111680888247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774681833222176907.post-34423518644451427612012-12-30T17:13:11.896-06:002012-12-30T17:13:11.896-06:00I was able to see The Hobbit this weekend. All of ...I was able to see <i>The Hobbit</i> this weekend. All of the things Maclin didn't like about LotR are in evidence, but I must say that when the credits rolled, my first thought was "That was great!" Looking back on it now, I can see that some things were too much -- the big goblin fight and the orc/tree thing at the end -- but while the movie was playing I enjoyed it. <br /><br />For all the sound and fury, it wasn't as loud and obnoxious as I feared it would be. There were quite a few pauses and quiet moments, and the scene with the eagles was a wonderful finish. I also really liked the introductory material about the history of the dwarves. Smaug in the movie is much fiercer than the Smaug of my imagination.Craighttp://cburrell.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774681833222176907.post-89839167918080444192012-12-29T16:40:57.877-06:002012-12-29T16:40:57.877-06:00Okay, I take it back. You shouldn't go see it....Okay, I take it back. You shouldn't go see it. <br /><br />The thing is that I agree with everything you say, except that I seem to have trained myself to just withdraw from those parts that drive me crazy. There <i>are</i> things from LotR that still occupy my imagination, and I mean occupy it the way an enemy army occupies a conquered territory, but those were bad portrayals of characters, changes in the story line that should not have been made, and making light of things that should have been serious. The stupid additions, like the troll thing and the chases, etc., I just barely remember. If those things do stick with you though, you probably will be unhappy with the movie.<br /><br />The only instance of the first kind of thing that I can remember in The Hobbit is the portrayal of Radagast, and I didn't like that; however, I don't really remember Radagast at all. I know he goes bad, though, so in the end he certainly isn't comical. <br /><br />I don't think that Peter Jackson understands Tolkien, but I think he loves Tolkien. I'm thinking that as G says above, he might have learned something from LotR. <br /><br /><br />AMDG<br /><br />AMDGJanet Cupohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01037555111680888247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774681833222176907.post-10370899240295368942012-12-29T15:22:48.731-06:002012-12-29T15:22:48.731-06:00I'm afraid y'all are encouraging me in my ...I'm afraid y'all are encouraging me in my disinclination to see it. It's not that I'm extremely nit-picky--in principle I'm ok with changes made in the name of cinematic necessity or practice. But one can bow to those to some degree without introducing stupidity. Or maybe current cinematic necessity/practice (aka audience expectations) *do* require stupidity. Either way, I seem to have a much lower tolerance for the general laying on of superfluous battles, chases, unsuspenseful cliffhangers, etc etc etc. One of the things I really hated in LotR was the battle with the cave troll. I'd rather watch Roadrunner and Wile E. Coyote than that sort of thing. <br /><br />Here's what I said in 2004 about Return of the King: "The films seem driven by a compulsion to overstate and overdo, to crowd every possible moment with action, to pile more and yet more noisy dangers, yet more unconvincing physical stunts, onto the story: the combat between Saruman and Gandalf in Fellowship, which ought to have been something subtle; the endless fight with the cave-troll; the unnecessary and unbelievable leaps among the falling stairs in Moria; Frodo’s standard Hollywood fall-and-hang-by-the-fingers at the Crack of Doom. All of this imparts a cartoonish quality to much of the film and has exactly the opposite of its intended effect on me: rather than compelling my attention it breaks the spell, and provokes the rolling of eyes."<br /><br />I'm less inclined to put up with this now than I was then, mainly because of the way the movies occupied my imagination, so that I can still see those images 8 years later. <br /><br />I agree completely with you, Janet, about the portrayal of Aragorn being the single biggest problem with the LotR movies. It was both more and less forgiveable--it wasn't pandering, like the other stuff I mentioned, and presumably was a serious artistic decision, but a very mistaken one. I guess I'm still not convinced Peter Jackson understands Tolkien.Maclinhttp://lightondarkwater.typepad.comnoreply@blogger.com